First-Gen Immigrant Money Habits

Violeta Sandoval 0:00

Growing up , especially like first gen immigrants in the Latino community . Yeah , we , we have this trend that we don't get a lot of financial literacy growing up , but that doesn't mean that we aren't exposed or pick up , you know , money habits and money mindsets that tend to have an influence in our lives , and it isn't until we get a little bit older that you know we might start figuring these out . And then , even later , if we are trying to teach the next generation whether it's like our kids or maybe our nieces and nephews that we start kind of seeing some of these influences come up that we learned throughout our childhood , and so it can be a struggle , and so with me today I have Joanna Estudillo to share her story .

Jhoanna Astudillo 0:54

Thank , you , violeta , and I'm so excited to be here . As you mentioned , joanna Estudillo , I'm actually originally from Ecuador . I moved to the US when I was 18 . And shortly after I joined the military for a chance to get my education paid for and learn the language , and a lot of things happened then and between that until now , I went to college in Illinois . I have a degree in international business and marketing and then I joined the financial industry almost 18 years ago . So I spent 10 years in sales in different positions at another financial institution and today I work for BOKF and Bank of Oklahoma in Tulsa and I'm the Hispanic segment leader for the consumer division for the Hispanic strategy , and I absolutely love what I do . And you know you mentioned about that relationship that we have with money or those influences that we have , and I see those every day , not only in my household but outside as well .

Violeta Sandoval 1:56

You said you joined the army and this is where you , kind of like , started learning a little bit about finances and your financial journey . But you also , you know , had a little , I guess , financial mistakes throughout there , cause I know I did at the beginning . So I want you to go a little bit into that .

Jhoanna Astudillo 2:16

Yeah , so , violeta , you know , I moved to the U ? S and I think it wasn't even four weeks after I was here , I joined the military . So I started with , you know , and I think many people , even if they didn't go to the military , they're immigrants can relate to not knowing the language . And then you add financial pieces to that right the culture , nuance , banking we're talking about 1999 . So banking , access to banking in Latin America was not the same . It's not the same today as it was before . So I knew nothing about it .

Jhoanna Astudillo 2:48

Thankfully , I joined with my sister and I still remember , you know , as you were asking me , when we went through the process . You have to set up direct deposit . I didn't even know what that meant . You had to pick up an account , and so we were like looking at what other people are doing , because we didn't speak the language as well , we couldn't understand a little bit . But yeah , that was my first paycheck um , and for everybody that's in the military as an iwan um , it's not a lot of money , but they take care of everything else for you . You don't have to worry about housing , you don't have to worry about food , you don't have to worry about anything , and so the money that you get is just really for you , um , and without tools and resources and knowing how to manage you know you , just you just spend the money . Uh , also , because you know I grew up in Ecuador .

Jhoanna Astudillo 3:35

We didn't have a lot . My parents made a lot of sacrifices , and so I I remember that one . Once I got like first paycheck , all I wanted to do was buy gifts to give back to my family . I used to go to Ecuador every summer for a whole month . I saved all my vacation in suitcases full of gifts for everybody . So I think for the first two years since where my paycheck went to , I think I needed to make up for that , for the memory of growing up that we didn't have enough . You have enough to buy extra pairs of shoes or extra pair of jeans or extra of this . It was always , um , I always remember hearing , and I knew how much of a sacrifice what my parents were making to put us in private schools because education is extremely important to them , and so that was

Joanna's Journey: Military to Finance

Jhoanna Astudillo 4:23

my way of okay , now I have a little bit of money , let me show them gratitude for what they have done , so I didn't save anything .

Violeta Sandoval 4:31

I think I had the same mentality . It was like I'm working now and I have , you know , a stable paycheck , because I remember like every Christmas I bought my dad like a new tv and new TV , or I had bought my mom a stove , because I felt that need to give back because of their sacrifice and all that . So I definitely relate to that .

Jhoanna Astudillo 4:57

Ecuador is a little different . When I was in high school , we never had jobs . It's not like here that teenagers work part time , so they are getting access to money . They're making their own money babysitting that . The culture was very different at that time , and so I also remember the first time I got my account overdrawn I thought I was in big trouble .

Violeta Sandoval 5:17

I didn't understand .

Jhoanna Astudillo 5:18

I got the letter , the fee , but I didn't know what it meant , like I really thought I'm in trouble for overjoying my account . So now that I work in the bank I'm like it wasn't that big of a trouble . But yes , I wish that I never .

Violeta Sandoval 5:32

I feel like everybody that goes into the military has to go through this experience of the car dealership . So what is your story ? What was your .

Jhoanna Astudillo 5:43

So my last year in the military I was in iraq in operation iraqi freedom , and so one of the interesting things that they have was they had a a program that if you put money aside so that was a smart decision I made if you put money aside , the army will match those funds for you . And so I came back back and I had like $16,000 saved , and now it was time to get out of the military . So I knew I needed a vehicle . I was going to move back to Illinois to go to school . So I went to the dealership and I was so happy I'd been in the service for four years and I had some credit cards from the stores because I thought that's how you build credit credit and they denied the loan to me it was a Nissan dealership and I only went to Nissan because , just like any other Hispanic , especially in that time , you went with where your uncle went , the one that lived here the longest , that knew everything about everything right .

Jhoanna Astudillo 6:44

I went to Nissan because that was the right car and they told me it was denied . And I said why ? And the answer I will never forget they told me I was a ghost in this country after coming back from Iraq and fighting in the war and I said what do you mean ? And I learned that mean . I don't know that . I agree fully . But not having credit is worse as having bad credit . I think that we can agree to disagree there .

Jhoanna Astudillo 7:12

But I didn't have credit . I only had store credit cards . I didn't have a bank credit card . So then I offered to put half of the money . Now I know better today . I wish I put it in the market . But I offered to put half of the money and I know better today . I wish I put it in the market . But , um , I offered to put half of the money and I still couldn't qualify . I had to had , I think , a cosigner to get my vehicle . My Nissan Sentra 19 no 2004 was my first vehicle with a cosigner paying 50% down because I was a ghost in this country .

Violeta Sandoval 7:45

Oh , man , yeah , I had , I had the same thing . I was a ghost . And when you said that and I read , like your , your , your whole story , I saw that I was like , oh , I know how that feels , cause I went . Except , I went for a Honda , I was going for a Nissan , but I didn't find one that was like within like my price range , I think . I forgot what it was , and it was the same thing . I didn't have a credit because , of course , you know , my parents were like don't get into debt with anything . So I didn't even have a credit card ever . And then I went to the car dealership and , yeah , it was so hard , it was so hard to get that , that , um , honda , it was like a 2008 Honda Accord you know , my parents didn't live in the US so they went back .

Jhoanna Astudillo 8:32

We came here because my aunt had applied for us , so it was just my brother and my sister , so not having parents to live here um it was .

Jhoanna Astudillo 8:41

You know it added the difficulty . Like I said , we had an uncle that he had . He was very educated financially because he had done the work for himself

Ghost in the Country: Credit Issues

Jhoanna Astudillo 8:53

but we my brother and my sister lived with him for a year so he kind of was teaching them some things but I didn't have that exposure . But even today I realize it just is not one conversation . You don't learn by knowing that somebody else has done something . It is a culture , it's part of a culture piece and it's a journey to be able to learn , observe , being exposed to . So a conversation is not enough and I didn't have that knowledge in the military . So it was pretty , pretty interesting and interesting enough to be like that . I kept that vehicle for like 10 years if , yeah , I could not let go .

Violeta Sandoval 9:31

It was like we're like no , this cost me way too much to let it go yes , in tears .

Jhoanna Astudillo 9:37

And you mentioned something that's funny , that you know . Growing up , your father said don't get in debt . So I remember my dad . He used to say if you don't have money , don't buy it , and when he came to visit us we were so happy to tell him . I think my brother had bought a vehicle too and I bought a vehicle , and so we're like papi look at my car , and you know what he said to us mijita , that's not your car , that's the bank's car when you pay for it . Yeah , yeah waiting on my parade .

Jhoanna Astudillo 10:05

I'm so proud of what I've accomplished so that mentality of if you don't have money , don't buy it and then um this is not yours until you have the title . This is , this is the banks , so kind of that reality oh so .

Violeta Sandoval 10:23

So what was it like ? Did it take you after that ? Or like I guess was that the point where you were like , oh wow , like I , maybe I should start figuring this money thing out . Or like , did it take a little bit longer ?

Jhoanna Astudillo 10:39

Yeah , I think that it's a journey right being financial savvy is a journey .

Jhoanna Astudillo 10:44

I do think that it was a journey . Right , being financial savvy is a journey . I do think that it was a starting point to realize . But then , without guidance , you're like okay , so how do I build credit ? I think the starting point was that I knew having the vehicle was going to help me build credit , and I still remember learning that I had the money to pay it off , but if I paid it off completely , I was not going to bill credit . So that was also kind of funny from a cultural perspective . Like I can only bill credit if I owe you money , but if I pay you , like if I get the loan and pay you in two months , I'm not good . I'm still not good because in order to bill credit , I have to owe money , which was the complete opposite for me and I'm like no , it should be that I paid off so quickly .

Jhoanna Astudillo 11:27

And so then it was like , okay , I need to start getting credit cards . And I went to college for four years . Again , my parents didn't live here , so it was on my own . I traveled to Spain doing I did an internship . So I got in some debt with the credit cards , even though the army kind of helped pay for some of that .

Jhoanna Astudillo 11:43

But I was still very young and very naive and so I think I made some some good decisions , but they were not necessarily based on my financial awareness . I think it was just decisions that I kind of learned from my mom . So one of them was when I was in the military I put extra money towards the GI bill . For the ones that don't know is the font that you get to pay for your education . So if you put a little bit of extra money you could increase it by like a crazy percentage . So I did that . So that helped me a lot in college .

Jhoanna Astudillo 12:16

But yeah , so in college I was getting the money from the GI Bill . Last Illinois had a program , so Illinois was giving me money , Illinois was paying my whole education . I was getting the paycheck from the army and I was living in an apartment that was maybe $300 . So I kind of live a really good life . And I picked up a part-time job just to hang out with my friends , but I was taking my laundry to the laundromat for them to do it , because I wanted to save time for myself and I thought I deserve it .

Jhoanna Astudillo 12:48

So really , bad yeah um , I mean , I could have saved money during that time . I definitely could have saved money because of the income I was getting and I did , and I got in debt . I think when I graduated from college I had had and I'm not proud of this , I don't think I have ever actually shared this with anyone I had $15,000 in debt . Oh wow , not education debt , because my college was paid for . I didn't have to take any loans , but the $15,000 was in credit card and it was part of the internship in Spain because the army didn't pay for that and the internship didn't pay for it .

Jhoanna Astudillo 13:29

I had a really great experience , but I graduated with that and , interesting enough , I started working at the bank and my husband now , who was my boyfriend , dan , and we started dating and kind of being serious dating . He's not he's not Hispanic and he said I remember him sitting down with me and I told him and he had zero debt , he had worked like two jobs while he was in college and he's the first one that kind of sat down with me and said we're going to do kind of a set up a process and cause .

Jhoanna Astudillo 14:06

I was just paying right , trying to pay , I think I had three credit cards and so he , he . It was the first time somebody told me no , no , no , you're going to pay the ones with the highest rate first , but even more so having to write it down , violeta it made it real for me because I think I I had acknowledgement .

Jhoanna Astudillo 14:25

but sometimes we are kind of scared of make you know , saying it out loud , because now it's real . I was just kind of paying the minimum payment and when I wrote it down in a paper it kind of hit me and it scared me a little bit . This was 2003 and I had 15 000 in credit card debt and I had nothing to my name no house , a car than I was four years old and we created a plan and I paid that , I think , in less than a year . I wasn't I mean , I wasn't making a lot of money , I was a personal banker , and I think that's when things really changed for me .

Violeta Sandoval 15:02

Yeah , sometimes it just takes that just facing it on because you're you think you're doing like taking action because you were paying it but it was just the minimum payment and you could be doing that for a few years . But actually sitting down and facing that fear Cause I know we and that guilt cause you know we deal with that guilt of you know , making a , a financial decision that wasn't the best , but going there and actually creating a plan and you ended up paying it off and you said a year . So sometimes we just got to face it .

Jhoanna Astudillo 15:44

Yeah , yeah , and have a strategy to it , right . I had somebody that took the time and really understood what it was , as opposed to saying , okay , $15,000 , you're going to pay this much every month . It was no , let's take a look . You've got to look and that's what we try to do now with our clients , but you have to understand your debt because sometimes we get into debt

Debt Struggles and Facing Financial Reality

Jhoanna Astudillo 16:05

without understanding and again , a bad behavior , even while I was paying the debt , that behavior and that relationship with money . My love language was giving gifts and my mom was a giver it's still a gift I love her .

Jhoanna Astudillo 16:18

So , even though I was paying , sometimes I found myself buying something unnecessary to give to somebody for their birthday . I wanted to show my gratitude and my love through that , and while going on to Ecuador for vacation , I couldn't go empty handed so suitcases full of gifts while I was getting in debt , because I always thought that I had the need to show them love and repay for what they did , even though my parents kept saying we don't need anything . We don't need anything and I think , a little bit of a healing too . You know , I went to a private school in Ecuador . We didn't have as much as others , and so you have a paycheck . I think I was , maybe unfortunately , thinking that success was not having nice things and having the nice purses , and so now I have to show that I'm successful . Obviously , today I think very differently , but I was 22 , 23 at that time , 26 maybe and so I was still spending money and things that don't add any value .

Violeta Sandoval 17:22

Yeah , I did the same thing , going and get the nice , the Gucci shoes and the little Louis Vuitton bag and I was like like I sold that like last year because it just sat , it sat in my closet because then I was too scared to actually use it because it cost so much . I was like you know what , I'm just gonna let it go and um , so , yeah , I learned a lesson . I've gotten rid of all that stuff for the most part , unless I know I'm actually using it . Things are starting to come up . Um , you were mentioning a little bit earlier and and through , uh , your story , that I read that , uh , you're realizing things that were told to you , or that you learned , that you're realizing that you're kind of like , you know , continuing the cycle .

Jhoanna Astudillo 18:17

Yeah , you know one of the things I was mentioning to you , I think the way I will call it is that relationship with money and you know the things that we learned through it , right ? This idea of having to give back and the love language , right , comes from that relationship with money . I think I saw money as a luxury growing up , as opposed to as a resource and a tool . So I think many , many um of the people listening to this podcast have heard this growing up that money doesn't grow on trees and dinero no crece los arboles .

Jhoanna Astudillo 18:45

No matter where you went or what you did , it was like do not even ask for because we don't have money . And the other one was we don not even ask for because we don't have money . And the other one was we don't have money for that , we don't have money , we don't have money , we don't have money .

Jhoanna Astudillo 18:55

And in reality , again , my parents made a lot of sacrifices because the money was going for education and they were extremely humble people so anytime you know , my brother and I joke that people used to come to visit my mom will say say thank you so much for coming , like like she was so grateful that people will come to my house because our house was not , you know , as big and in a great location like others . But and so subconsciously , you kind of have those ideas . And so Emilia is today . She's eight years old now , but I realized when she was like maybe three and we used to go to the store before we went in , I looked at Amelia in the eyes and I said why are we going inside ? We're going to get milk , we're not going to get toast .

Jhoanna Astudillo 19:37

We don't have money for that . And then money doesn't go on trees and every time we're going to go in for this . And so I remember we were at one of the stores and Amelia asked if she could have this toy . And then I look at her in the eyes and I said do you remember Amelia ? And she will say money doesn't go on trees . And I said we don't have money for that . And as my husband and I you know , we budget Again , we have come a long way .

Jhoanna Astudillo 20:05

We have to reset our budgets from time to time as we progress and we're more successful . We have to get things differently . But as I was looking at my my , the money in my account , and we do have money for that , we have money for that , not credit card money . We actually have money . We have done a really good job . We have made changes and maybe has an account with money because she gets gifts and you know cash and gifts , and so I don't know what hit me .

Jhoanna Astudillo 20:33

I think it was a combination of things and maybe being exposed to clients , but I decided I needed to change the narrative . It's not that we don't have money for that . Should we spend money on that . That's the real question and that's the real conversation with Amelia , and so that started a journey that it's been wonderful and she's extremely engaged and we talk about things and we even do budget and we can go into more of that . But I realized again that I didn't have a good relationship with money and then I saw money as a luxury . So when I got some I needed to spend , I needed to showcase , versus seeing money as a tool .

Violeta Sandoval 21:15

Yeah , yeah , I love that . You said that of how we change that mindset of money as a luxury versus as a resource and a tool , because once that kind of like switched in my brain , like it changed a lot of how I deal with my finances , how I'm investing and all that stuff and uh , the difference is is huge . So I'm fine with driving . Right now I have a little 2010 Honda Civic and it gets me to point A and to point B to work , and that's all I needed for we have my husband's truck for any other thing . So I can't bring myself , like you said , as like do I need to spend money on that ? Like do I need to spend money on another car when I have one that's perfect , it's not pretty , but it it works .

Violeta Sandoval 22:11

And yeah , maybe once we move back down to Texas , that , um , then I might go um and buy a car . But more strategically , and like I'm not gonna go out and get a new car . Um , I've already said I'll never get a new car . I just can't , I can't , I can't do it . I don't know why .

Jhoanna Astudillo 22:31

But yeah , that mindset shift is a game changer for sure something and it may not be a need , but you have put money aside for that . So emilia has her account and we do chores and we , you know , I teach her . You know , for us it's extremely important to give back , but we give back differently . It's not giving back just gifts for people that don't need it . It's giving back to organizations that we know are going to make an impact and for emilia to learn that that you give some of what you get , especially when you're not doing anything to get um , and we put money aside for vacation . We're huge in experiences like we . We like a really good meal , a good restaurant and bringing a meal on , so those memories are important to us , but we put money aside for that . We're not leaving a paycheck by paycheck or day by day , right ? And so it's been great to see also her mindset , because we go to the store and she has money in her account and she said can I buy this ? And I'm like , well , you could , you have money , but let's talk about why you want it . And you have 20 teddy bears at home that you don't even play with .

Jhoanna Astudillo 23:51

Now I have to tell you something funny that happened . So Amelia , maybe six , I don't know . She was still very little . She came home from school and she's very intuitive and and a deep thinker . But I guess they went through this in school and she said to my husband and I we were sitting there and she said mommy , do you know where money comes from ? I'm like what do you mean ? She's like money is it's like , do you know that money comes from paper ? And we said of course money is made of paper . And she said do you know where paper comes from ? My husband said trees .

Changing Money Narratives with Children

Jhoanna Astudillo 24:25

She's like yeah and then she walked away and him and I look at each other , we're like , well , I guess money that's come from trees . Yeah , oh man , it was so cute and funny . But um , you know , I just want Amelia to have um a healthy exposure .

Jhoanna Astudillo 24:44

I know she's gonna make mistakes and we have to make those mistakes safe for her um but I do want her to have a different relationship with money , because I think that when you have a healthy relationship with money , to your point , you can see money as a tool , you can invest , you can do a lot of those things that we were not exposed to , because we just saw money as a luxury yeah , yeah , I'm .

Violeta Sandoval 25:09

I'm glad that you you pointed that out of being okay with , uh , making financial mistakes because you are going to and , uh , you know , just real quick , as , like a , as a real estate investor , that's one of the hardest things , uh , when I'm out here , you know , promoting real estate investing and and teaching it to the Latino community , that's one of the biggest fears is the potential to make mistakes .

Violeta Sandoval 25:37

But , like you mentioned , is that you set yourself up and provide a cushion to that if there is a mistake or something does go wrong , because that's the biggest fear as well or something does go wrong , because that's the biggest fear as well that you know a tenant doesn't pay or whatever , and it's like no , we , you , you invest , but with that risk in mind and you set yourself up for that risk through an emergency fund , just like you would for yourself . You do it for each property that you invest in , so that way you're OK . If you need to replace the roof , you have those funds there . Then , rather than it like come out of nowhere and then you're scrambling to pay it , and that's when that big old fear comes towards risk and the resistance to invest . And , even if it's not real estate investing similar with the stock market . Especially with what happened recently , I know it kind of like set a few people back of like hesitating to invest . So I know in our community that's one big thing that we have to overcome .

Jhoanna Astudillo 26:39

Oh my gosh , and you know when I mean . The numbers tell a story 49% of Hispanic Latinos don't own any investments . That's one of the best vehicles to build wealth , because building wealth takes cycles right and again . Financial education and savviness is a journey I'm still learning . I'm still going to make mistakes . I'm much better off than I was before , but think about that 49 Forty nine percent don't own an investment , and part of that is the culture , is the lack of awareness .

Jhoanna Astudillo 27:27

Many of them don't even put money in the 401k , and I was one of them . I mean , if I go back and I wish I could look at my younger self and tell her a different story , but I didn't start putting money in my 401k until almost one year . I was working for the bank . I lost one year and again I was dating the person that's now my husband , and I think I did a little before , because he just kept telling me Joanna , joanna , you got to do it and I was losing money because the company was matching , of course , uh , but it's just not something that it's , it's familiar to us , it's a foreign language , it's you know , uh . So any type of investment .

Jhoanna Astudillo 28:10

What's so funny , though , billette , if you think about the immigrant we take . We're risk takers , just live in our countries . Yes , yes , I'm glad you brought that up . But then we become , you know . I think it's because we don't know enough and sometimes we're afraid to ask the question . We think that we need to know more before we do something and we are not always comfortable with raising our hand and going to people like you or people in the community that can teach them . So , um , it's kind of funny to understand that paradigm right , risk takers but at the same time , quite afraid of taking advantage of those things .

Violeta Sandoval 28:50

Yeah , yeah , yeah , that's , that's a big thing , that , um , I'm glad you mentioned it because it is true . It's like you know , we , we will take the biggest risk of leaving a country to another country where most of the time , they don't even know the language yet . You know they have to learn the language when they get here , or at least you know . Uh , sometimes they still don't . Like , my mom is still kind of like iffy with with english . She could understand it , but like she's still not after being here like 30 , over 30 years at this point . Um , but when it comes for her to do anything regarding her money , like she it's so it's so hard to get her and and similar a little bit . My dad's a little bit easier , but he still has his kind of like uh , hesitation and everything like that . But , yeah , we take , took the biggest risk , but now with money , it is like I'm not , I'm doing everything the safe way and um yeah , which is a great .

Violeta Sandoval 29:57

You know like um , you know , to kind of like wrap it up , going into , uh , we were talking about Be Okay and we were mentioning I can't remember if we were recording at that time , but we were talking about the resources and and you mentioned that it is the Hispanic segment , and so I want to get know a little bit about that , because it's so important and I'm glad that BOK is actually , you know , implementing that

Latino Investment Hesitation Despite Risk-Taking

Violeta Sandoval 30:32

because we need it .

Jhoanna Astudillo 30:32

So I wanted for you to share a little bit about that . Absolutely , I know I have to say first that you know I have my dream job and you know , not everybody can say that . So I think we're very blessed .

Violeta Sandoval 30:42

So I work with .

Jhoanna Astudillo 30:43

Bank of Oklahoma here in Tulsa , but it's part of BOKF , so we're in many states . In other states we have the local name , like Bank of Texas , OK , and then BOKF and some others . So this job started as a project , working on a project with different individuals to see how we were supporting the Hispanic Latino community , and then a job was created , and so it's a multi-year strategy and one of the things that you know , as I was mentioning , the Hispanic demographic is a growing , it's a powerhouse . It's a growing segment , is a growing segment . Last year it was shared that if the Hispanic Latinos were a standalone country in the US , we would be like either the fourth or fifth GDP in the world 4.4 million businesses owned by Latinos .

Jhoanna Astudillo 31:34

We contribute $800 billion to the economy , and so you know I want to make sure people know this is not necessarily a diversity strategy . This is a business strategy . We want to take it to the growth of the community and also , at the same time , Bank of Oklahoma , BOPF has always had a commitment to advance the communities that we serve , and so those things go hand in hand for us . So you know , creating . We want to be the bank of choice for Latinos . My goal is to help Latino individuals , help them build wealth and become financially independent . And so different pieces in the strategy , but the crucial one , Violeta , is financial education regardless of the segmentation within the hispanic latino community .

Jhoanna Astudillo 32:27

we're not a monolithic community . We come in different shapes . We have affluent clients with fluent business uh , businesses but we also have entrepreneurs that are just starting . We have emerging people who are just emerging right and the youth 1 million latinos are turning 18 every , and we expect that for the next two decades . So I mean , just think about the powerhouse right . And so we take that with our community relations very seriously .

Jhoanna Astudillo 32:53

And so I learned that April is Financial Inclusion Month , so we do workshops across the country , but in Tulsa , we're going to have four workshops in April , three of them in Spanish , regarding identity theft , which unfortunately , our community is very exposed to . And then you know how to create an emergency fund , and this is geared to anyone , whether you're a personal client , business client , or if you're not a client , you can attend anyone . Whether you're a personal client , business client , or if you're not a client , you can attend . We're planning on doing some of those virtually , so we can , you know , attract people even in other places . But , like I said , we have people in every market where we are located , and so we'll be doing some of those as well . But financial education is absolutely key .

Violeta Sandoval 33:38

Yeah , yeah , yeah . I'm glad that you're taking that initiative and providing those resources , and especially with the identity theft , I always forget about that one , because you're right , like I could imagine , like I always think about , like , my parents it's like you know , at any point they because they don't know , they don't know , like , how documents work , and especially , you know , like , growing up , I was the one that like translated everything for them , so they rely on me to this day Like I'm currently visiting my family and my dad already had a stack of papers for me and it's like I got this , I got this . I was like , okay , this is this , I got this , I got this . I was like , okay , this is this and this is that , and blah , blah , blah . So I could see how for sure that puts them at risk . So I'm glad that y'all have a workshop for that as well , cause I didn't even think about that aspect as well .

Jhoanna Astudillo 34:38

Yeah , and it's . You know , I work with a lot of nonprofit organizations locally . So two of those are going to be done with Avanzando Juntos , and we do a lot of work with nonprofits Because you know , violeta , you know when I think about the work we do . One of the pieces for me , and the leadership in the bank , is we want to be very intentional , so it's understanding what's the real need and where can we add value , because we are not going to add value everywhere . And so , working with local nonprofits and I said this to the people listening to you if you're in a leadership position , find those organizations that already have influence , not only because of the influence , because they know the community , and so you're going to be able to be more effective , addressing the needs that they have already identified and using the infrastructure that they have . Well , you can provide the tools and resources that they need , such as bilingual people that have knowledge in the finance world . Sometimes even , you know , maybe they can do donations for their operational costs , and so I think that those because you have to think how am I going to be more effective so I can reach as many people to help with what the mission is . So we do a lot of work with local nonprofits , and then we also , obviously , do a lot of work through the branches , you know . Work with your personal banker . That's what they're there for . Don't be afraid to ask questions . That's that's their role , that's their job , right ?

Jhoanna Astudillo 36:05

Um , I can imagine , though , violeta , how hard it is to try to change the mindset . Like you say , your mom and your dad , and I tell you , it happened to me many times , because I think , for a lot of immigrants , especially the the first generation foreign born , like your parents , you remember our country and our customs , the way we left them , and we don't see them involved .

BOK's Hispanic Segment Strategy

Jhoanna Astudillo 36:30

So we sometimes try to repeat the same things that we knew , because we think that our countries are still doing the same thing . And when I went to ecuador and saw the banking system today , I was blown away because it has changed . So I have tried to remember that when I'm raising my daughter , because you know Ecuador has changed .

Jhoanna Astudillo 36:53

I can't continue to try to do the same things I did there over 20 years ago , but I think that's what we carry over 20 years ago . But I think that's what we carry and also what I see from our a lot of the people that I work with I serve in non-profit organizations as well the trust , the lack of trust of clients with your financial institutions . Here sometimes it really doesn't have much to do with what the financial institutions do , it's more the lack of trust based of their experience at home . Yes , both of what happened in their home countries and because of the lack of regulations , and so we gotta understand that . It's almost like they have trauma the same way we did , but even more so . So we have to be mindful of that to be able to help .

Violeta Sandoval 37:39

You're not just teaching a class , changing a mindset yeah , you know what I did , I , I , I guess I never considered it that way , but as you were talking about it , it did bring to mind of how my parents because , yeah , my mom always talks about , you know , mexico , this and this , and that I was like , like , and she goes and visits it , but , um , she only goes to like her hometown and then that's it .

Violeta Sandoval 38:09

But I've gone , uh , throughout Mexico as I reconnect to my roots . So I've been going around , try to go visit different parts of Mexico , and I'm seeing those changes . And even with my dad now , at first they would always , I do remember them mentioning about the banks of Mexico and all this stuff , and now they've done so , like improved so much that now , like they have , like he's , he's getting the retirement over there now too , because now he my dad's 65 now , so he's able to be eligible , and so he's been going back and forth and he's like , every time he comes back he's like , wow , like you know , now they put it like in this little card , just like over here and everything , and it's like , um , yeah , I could see now what you were talking about and it didn't occur to me of that's kind of like where it stems from for them yeah , and I think you know when I think of financial education .

Jhoanna Astudillo 39:08

I serve in the board of three organizations , so I do a lot of work with them to develop business entrepreneurs as well , and they make and the immigrants are not all the same . You , you know , when you start looking at , you know , in a class in the past , in the states where I worked , always the largest population of attendees of any class were from Mexican descendants right , first generation , maybe second , maybe first generation born . But now I sit in a class and 80% are Venezuelans , 10% Mexican , and then in the next class , 90% are Mexican . So , but you have a lot of more cultures and then you have different degrees of education .

Jhoanna Astudillo 39:50

The people that we meet with , business entrepreneurs a lot of them are graduated not only from high school but from college . So it's a very different audience , violeta , and that's why I think it's important . You know , when you think about doing financial education , I think the first thing is to define what do you want the outcome to be , what do you want to help these people accomplish ? Right , because it's for them , it's not for us and then realize that somebody told me this and it was very powerful there will always be a first generation of immigrants . But that first generation is not going to look the same .

Jhoanna Astudillo 40:26

Yeah , they're more educated , um , many of them have access to banking in their home countries , but the culture nuance is going to be different . So , um , we still need to help them , but we got to kind of think a little different and I think the power of working with local people is it's um has been very great for us before I close the episode um , where can they go and look for these workshops , like is on the website , or where can they find them ?

Jhoanna Astudillo 40:56

yes , so we post in social media . So , um , like I said , you can go and find us on LinkedIn or you can go to a website and you either look from Bank of Oklahoma if you're in Oklahoma , and then we also post those workshops in social media and I think we're going to be adding to our local sites for clients and non-clients . But they can search Once .

Violeta Sandoval 41:21

once we post in social media , we will give them the link and they can find the workshops that we are working on okay , awesome , I'll make sure to put all that those links to your linkedin and , um , all the social media platforms that you have in the website uh , down in the show notes or in the description , depending on if you're watching on YouTube or you know regular like Spotify or whatever . But yeah , thank you so much , joanna , for coming on here . I learned a lot and a lot of things to consider for in the future to help our community , and I'm super excited that you know the blank , blank Bank of Oklahoma is out here , you know doing these things and having these resources for our community . So thank you so much for you know coming here

Understanding Financial Trust Issues

Violeta Sandoval 42:24

done and I am learning so much Again .

Jhoanna Astudillo 42:25

I love the chisme and name to it and for giving us that voice and that opportunity to help others .

Jhoanna Astudillo 42:28

you know you and I , as we connected , have some so many similar things that happen , and I'm sure that people listening to do as well . But I think you know what what I will share with them is you've got to take the first step . It's never too late . You're going to take the first step , leverage the resources . You don't have to do this on your own , but you do have the opportunity to create and change that cycle , not just for yourself , but for your kids as well . So thank you again , violeta , for the opportunity . Muchísimas gracias .

Violeta Sandoval 43:00

Thank you . Well , that's it for this episode . I will see everyone in the next one . Bye , bye-bye .