Neurodiversity in the Workplace

Violeta 0:01

Hola , hola , welcome to another episode of the Money Chisme podcast , and on this podcast we talk a lot about personal finance , investing , entrepreneurship and just ways to build wealth , but usually it's with the mindset of a neurotypical person , right , but what about those who are neurodivergent ? Like how does wealth building and finances impact them ? And they have their own unique hurdles that they have to overcome . So with me today to talk about it is Shalise here from NeuroDivergent Millionaire to share her financial freedom journey as a neurodivergent person and give some tips to others to help them in their wealth building journey . Hi , shalise , thank you so much for joining me today .

Violeta 1:00

Thank you so much for having me a neurotypical person and not really wondering like , okay , what obstacles will someone have as a neurodivergent person ? And I'm excited to have this conversation because I think it's something that we do need to become aware of and learn about these things too as well . So I'm excited for this conversation , but I would like to start a little bit from the beginning , curious , and see how your journey to now has been . I guess my first question would be was like did you know that you were neurodivergent off the start or towards the end ?

Shalese 2:02

Some people get diagnosed later in life , especially women oh yeah , I actually got diagnosed at the age of two , so I always knew that I was autistic . I think , though , that I was always confused by my diagnosis , because I always thought to myself well , if I'm doing so well in school , why am I being ostracized ? Why am I always being treated like I'm different and I got the painful ?

Shalese 2:25

reality that when I was in high school and a classmate of mine told me there's something different about me that she can't put her finger on . That's when I realized , oh okay , it really is something about me that is different , that other people see and that is hindering me , and that is the reason why I was in special ed classes all throughout my school years .

Violeta 2:47

Oh , wow , wow . So you got at least some access to some different types of like care and stuff like that early on , because you were diagnosed pretty early but so you were able to grow with it and learn and how to interact with how that impacts you . So once , I guess , you started working I know I've seen some of like your Instagram and a little bit of YouTube where you talked a little bit about it , of how you started noticing some obstacles in your jobs and stuff , and I want to get into that .

Shalese 3:23

Absolutely . So what happened is I started off looking for college work , study jobs and I would always get rejected . I'm thinking , okay , I got through the interview , I filled out the application and I would notice that the people that were hiring for the position , they would tell me things like if you ever need a job , let me know , and then they would make a note that saying they were hiring , and every time I would take them up on that offer , there will be some excuse as to why they wouldn't hire me . And eventually I started to feel like this is personal . It happened consistently . I realized they just don't want to hire me . Yeah , so it made me think to myself what is it about me that can't get hired ? And I eventually got my jobs throughout my career and it's like no sooner than I would get a job , I would end up being like for reasons like not being able to fit into the office environment . I actually was pulled into the office one time because my supervisor was complaining that I wasn't being social enough .

Violeta 4:23

Yeah what ? Yeah , my supervisors was complaining that I wasn't being social enough . Yeah what ? Yeah , and oh my god , I would have got fired too , because I'm at the office .

Shalese 4:31

I'm anti-social yeah , because my whole thing is like we are at work to , yeah , to work . We're not at work to socialize . That's what I thought it was , but apparently there's a lot of unwritten rules in the neurotypical world when it comes to work . And another thing that I had an obstacle with is the fact that certain accommodations I would need at work . A lot of employers would say that they couldn't accommodate it . Like , for instance , I tend to work better in a quiet environment with less distractions , and a lot of employers found it unreasonable for me to get that accommodation .

Shalese 5:07

And then I had a job one time where the supervisor thought that it was a retail job where I was facing customers , and the supervisor complained behind my back that I was socially awkward and she was regretting hiring me because of that . Oh , wow , yeah , it was a customer facing job and she thought that I wasn't social enough for the job . And I don't . I still , to this day , don't understand what they mean by by socially awkward . I don't . I can't wrap my head around . It doesn't make sense to me .

Shalese 5:38

Yeah , but it's become clear to me that there's something about me that people know , that I'm not neurotypical . I've been told . It's the way I speak , it's the way that I carry myself , it's the way that I walk . I've been told it's all kinds of things that make people know that I'm not neurotypical , but that's what's been making it hard for me with jobs . I've faced a lot of discrimination when it came to getting hired because of these people , and the thing is they don't tell me outright that's what it is , but they find other ways to to say it . Yeah , just because it's illegal for them to discriminate against me . They don't want to admit they're doing so .

Shalese 6:17

I've had a lot of that happen on jobs and then I've even had situations where I would get the job and then the second they found that I'm autistic . They would try to talk me into quitting or try to convince me that the job is not for me . And yeah , there's a lot of craziness and so it's just , I just want to keep a job , I just want to be employed and be able to build something for myself , like everyone else yeah , yeah , that .

Violeta 6:44

Yeah , because as soon as someone hears like someone's like autistic or something they like , it's immediate like red flag and they start like freaking out about it instead of trying to learn about it and seeing like , okay , how can I actually accommodate you ?

Violeta 6:59

What do you need from me to make sure that you can still perform the task or whatever , and make it an easy , because a lot of the stuff like being in a quiet spot , like I don't see why they couldn't have accommodated that , and it's one of the things that now we talk about , like entrepreneurship and you start building your business and that , and for me , as I start building out money , cheese , rent and stuff like that and eventually I would like to make it into a bigger business and hire people and stuff like that , and I'm already thinking of those types of accommodations is like OK , like working from home , what can I do ? Our types of communities as we start building our businesses , we have to start thinking about that too , to make a business that is diverse and equitable and accommodating and inclusive . And you usually think about like you know , like race or different types of background , but you don't think of like neural , being neurodivergent or some people don't think of like maybe some type of disability and a lot of those can be accommodated pretty easily .

Violeta 8:10

It's just , I think , people just freak out at the beginning like they do , and then there's a lot of stereotypes , too , about being neurodivergent .

Shalese 8:17

There's a lot of stereotypes that we're lazy , we don't want to work . We , you know , are very technique . There is a lot of stereotypes that we're difficult to work with and that we're going to be a liability and all of that .

Violeta 8:29

Yeah , would be your tips or advice to have this conversation that they do hire someone like and make sure to not make it so taboo right .

Shalese 8:53

I think that there needs to be a lot of training involved , like neurodivergence . There needs to be mandatory training and all work placements about being aware about neurodivergence , how to work with it . There needs to be more awareness made , first of all , and secondly , I also feel like people need to just get themselves acquainted with the fact that we exist and we ain't going nowhere , and they just simply need to learn to work with us yeah , because not everyone's going to be like a social butterfly .

Violeta 9:26

I am an introvert , so it really takes a lot of effort . Like sometimes I will have to remind myself like I haven't talked to my co-workers in a little bit . Let me go say hi to them or whatever , because it's true , that's something that's expected at a job to go be friendly and whatever and I get it to be expected .

Violeta 9:48

Like every single time , it's like okay , yeah , and so you don't think about these things of how it might impact somebody like that . Just like how we're saying with with personal finance , and we talked a little bit about like how it has impacted you with your jobs , and I've seen on like your YouTube and Instagram that one of the ways that you try to overcome that obstacle was through side hustles and stuff like that . So I want to ask you what kind of side hustles did you have ?

Alternative Ways to Build Wealth

Shalese 10:22

So my first and foremost one that I did was I rented my cars out on Turo .

Shalese 10:28

Though I got my first ever car when I was in grad school and toward the end of the semester before I graduated I did not have a job lined up , and so I decided I had this bright idea to go on Google and look for Airbnb of cars renting your cars out . And sure enough , there was this platform , at the time called RelayRides , but now it's called Turo . I'm sure you've probably heard of Turo yes , at the time it was called RelayRides and so I decided to list my car up there , give it a try . I thought it was too good to be true . At first I had a few people request my car and I was skeptical and did not accept it , and I finally gave in on the second try and accepted it . The rental , everything went smoothly , and then I got my first check , and then I thought , oh , I'm going to keep this going and I realized I could make money without having to go into a job and deal with office politics . I could make money that way .

Shalese 11:17

And so I started doing that , using that to fund my travels , and then I started also doing things like Uber on the side . I've done teaching English . I've actually done coaching on the side . I've done all of these different things to make money , to be able to make , have the freedom to build my travel blog and I eventually was able to start building it up to having paid speaking engagement .

Shalese 11:38

So that's how I pretty much funded my way into being able to do freelancing , and so that's when I realized there's a whole nother way to make money to fund our dreams . It doesn't have to come in the package of the typical nine to five job .

Violeta 11:53

Yeah , yeah , I do remember hearing about Tyrone .

Violeta 11:56

I was like this close to renting out my car there too , but I was too scared because it's like no what if something happens to my car there too , but I was too scared because it's like no , what if something happens to my car ? Then it's like I don't have a car to go to work and everything . I think Turo's still around , isn't it ? I never really heard about it as much before it started getting super popular . But , yeah , you found another way to skip the nine-to-five and not having to deal with the people judging you or stuff like that , and now you're wanting to teach others like how to build wealth without having to deal with that , and so I want to go into some of your tips and advice for someone that is neurodivergent and going through this as well . What are some of your tips or some advice for them ?

Shalese 12:50

So basically I would say , first of all , you can't go into this measuring your self-worth against neurotypical standards of success . Because that was my first mistake I was judging myself based on comparing myself to my peers who were able to be successful in the typical workforce .

Shalese 13:08

And I felt like I felt the worst about myself in August .

Shalese 13:11

I had low self-esteem , low self-worth and I just I was really depressed about it and I would say that really held me back .

Shalese 13:18

Feeling that , feeling bad about myself because I was comparing myself to a neurotypical standard of success really held me back , because I was comparing myself to a neurotypical standard of success really held me back , instead of just embracing my own limitations and my own strengths and realizing that I'm not less than because I may succeed in a different way , because there are people in this world that will make you feel less than because you have to do things differently . And that brings me to my second point watch who you surround yourself with , watch you take advice from , watch who you allow to put their energy into you , because sometimes people will project their limitations and their judgments onto you and , yeah , that's not good for you , that'll take you off track . And also , I would say , on top of that , really embrace these opportunities out here . There's a lot of opportunity to make money on social media , to create content , to do freelance . The internet has made so many opportunities , and so I would say , take advantage of those too .

Violeta 14:13

Just understand that there's a will to get out here and make money without being subjected to ableism , and so go and get it that's one of the things that I'm glad about learning how to use the internet or building the multiple sources of income and stuff like that and for me it was just like so I don't have to go work all the time I could have free time to do this stuff , but it works for someone that has neurodivergent or for those that are disabled , or something like that or those who are building a family and everything like that is .

Violeta 14:53

It has made it so flexible now , when you have these options and learn how you can just go around the corporate world or nine to five and all that stuff , and so I'm glad that you're out here and helping people and teaching these . And I know you wrote a book . I saw a little bit and I do want to give you a chance to shout out your book and tell us a little bit about it .

Shalese 15:18

Yes , so Neurodivergent Millionaire just really pretty much talks about all the obstacles we deal with when it comes to building financial freedom and the workplace and getting proper accommodations , and so the book really is me proposing solutions to the common financial problems we have as a result of the obstacles we have . This is me talking about another way we can handle our finances , because we have to handle our finances differently because we don't have the same advantages that the neurotypicals have . That means we have to handle things differently than the neurotypicals , and so that's what my book was about really talking about finance from a neurodivergent perspective how we got here , why are we in this position and how we should maneuver around it .

Violeta 16:03

Yeah , yeah .

Financial Empowerment for Neurodivergent Individuals

Violeta 16:04

And can you give us an example of something that someone neurotypical would do , kind of their finances ? Someone neurodivergent might have to do it a little bit different .

Shalese 16:16

First of all , for instance , dave Ramsey . He believes in shaming people for debt , for being in a low income . He believes in shaming tactics , and that does not work , because the thing is , when it comes to our community , a lot of the reason that we're in a financial bind is because of things that are our fault Healthcare , health expenses , being discriminated against with jobs . These are things that aren't our fault , and we're listening to things that are shaming us for the position we're in due to outside circumstances . That's not helping us at all . Yeah , and also a lot of these financial gurus . They don't take into consideration our struggle when it comes to making money and they don't take into consideration also the aspect of the autistic relationship with money .

Shalese 17:01

For instance , some of us have a gray , black and white relationship with money in , for instance , some of us have a really black and white relationship with money in the sense that we'll take things very literally to the point where it can be dangerous .

Shalese 17:12

So , for instance , instead of being able to settle , instead of understanding that we can settle a credit card debt or we can settle an old debt for less , we'll take that literally and we'll think that we'll have to pay the full amount , which can cause us to sometimes be obsessive , to the point where we go we forego our basic needs , like we'll not pay our rent , thinking that , okay , we don't have this credit card , or we'll not pay for food or we'll not pay for things we need , trying to pay for credit card debt , all because we took it too literally that , oh , you have to pay this or your credit's going to go down , which , putting all that sacrifice and going without , really does not help you anyway , because by the time it's gotten to the point where some collections it's not even worth doing all that for . You might as well sell it for less or you can get it deleted . So come to find out you're putting all of this effort and making all the sacrifices to something that is not going to help you anywhere . Yeah , so it becomes .

Violeta 18:07

Yeah , you know what ? Yeah , You're right , Because I didn't even think about that that some of the advice and tips and everything like that , someone with autism , they will take it , like you said , very literally and then just hyper fixate . I got to do this and then just hyper fixate I got to do this . And then that's all I'm going to focus .

Shalese 18:26

I've totally made that mistake and I like think about all the things I could have done if I had not fallen for that .

Violeta 18:35

Yeah , yeah , and I'm glad that you found because , like , being neurotypical , like it would not have occurred to me that when I'm putting out information or whatever , to also give , yes , here's this tip or advice , but worded in a certain way or whatever , or a disclaimer or whatever like that . So like I guess what would be some tips you would give for or wish that some of these financial coaches , or when I start putting out , when I put out like financial advice or whatever tips , like what is some things that you wish that would be added , or disclaimers , or something like that Financial gurus would highlight is that these things that they're talking about may not apply to everyone , and that if it does not apply to them , don't take it to heart if it does not apply to you .

Violeta 19:30

Yeah .

Shalese 19:31

Because a lot of times we take it to mean it's a say-all , be-all rule and it doesn't apply to us , and just really emphasize that it is not a reflection on the person's worth or whether or not they've done all the right things . It's not a poor reflection on them , yeah , and so I think that needs to be emphasized . Another thing that a lot of financial people have a bad habit of doing is they also emphasize the idea of just taking any job for the sake of having a job and they don't stop and consider the fact that not all jobs are worth it to take . So let's say that you're in a job that's not accommodating you and you're running yourself ragged to the point where you're not taking care of yourself outside of work and you're getting this money from this job that's paying you hard or anything . Yeah , you're not able to really make ends meet , and then you call into question is it really worth all of that ? Is it really worth what you're putting yourself through for the outcome ?

Shalese 20:27

Yeah , that's a lot to think about as well , and it's also not a moral thing to have to be careful what job should take on , because , see , here in America we make work and working hard into a moral thing . We got to stop with that mindset , because it's not necessarily moral or it doesn't make you morally superior just because you work hard for next to nothing . Yeah , we work hard for next to nothing , yeah , and that's not to say we shouldn't work , we shouldn't better ourselves , but just slaving away for nothing and not getting anything in return , no benefits , no investments , and just being exploited , is not . That's not .

Violeta 21:06

That's just a waste yeah , yeah , that is true . A lot of the morality that is attached to working and just burning yourself out in this job that you're being told by , yeah , the hustle culture , and with that too , because that was kind of like a thing and I'm starting to see a little shift . So I'm glad that we're moving away from that , because there was like a whole time , that a time period , that we were like , ok , gonna work , but you have 24 hours in the day and in the weekend like find an hour and do some side hustle or whatever , and not everybody has the same 24 hours . Some people have families , some have other things , other needs , so not all of it applies right yeah right , that is very true .

Shalese 21:56

And then there's cost of living , there's inflation , and then you have to call it to question okay , is it worth being on your feet all day , lifting , heavy lifting , for a job that pays you minimum wage and does not offer you health insurance ? Is that really ?

Violeta 22:11

worth it . Yeah , yeah , you have all those things and I do want to go into because you did write a book talking about these things , so I want to give you an opportunity to like share some things about your book so in the book neurodivergent millionaire , I talk about everything we need to do to rebel against the status quo , and by status quo , this system as it is .

Shalese 22:33

so I talk about all the reasons that the system stacked against us , why it is that we struggle with financial stability , lack of accommodations at work , the fact that it's more expensive to be disabled , and I also offer solutions and possible ways that we can go about getting around that and getting away from it . So I do talk about alternative ways that we can handle our debts . We can't necessarily handle debt like neurotypical people or other people in the status quo are able to do . Then I also talk about the possibility of creating our own career , changing our mindset about what it means to be wealthy . Maybe get out of this mindset that you have to have a mansion and a bunch of yachts to be wealthy .

Shalese 23:17

Maybe get out of this mindset that you have to have a mansion and a bunch of yachts to be wealthy . Wealthy really just means that you're able to live a life that's authentic to you , to where you're not reliant on an ableist , exploitative system . Living a life where you don't have to be abused at work , where you can be yourself , where you can really invest in the things that you enjoy . That's what being wealthy is all about . It's not necessarily the status quo definition of material wealth , right ? Yeah ?

Violeta 23:46

I love that , how you just put that , like wealth is just really how you can live authentically to yourself , and that's a really great definition or , besides , the basic one that is wealth . I really like that . It really just kind of like wow , I never thought about it that way , because that is true . Like this financial freedom and building wealth , that's all what we're looking for is to be able to live how we want to live , and yeah , yeah , yeah .

Shalese 24:21

Agency money gives you the ability to have options , to not have to subject yourself to able assistance , to not have to subject yourself to abusive situations . The big and she options and empowerment , and that's really what it comes down to . It's not about buying a Mercedes or anything like that , and that's not to say you shouldn't buy luxury goods , but that's not the only thing that growth is about .

Violeta 24:44

Mm-hmm , mm-hmm . Yeah , definitely I love that and I'm glad that you're , that you are filling up this space that is being overlooked by financial gurus , influencers , whatever you want to call it , because it is a need . It is a need and I'm glad that you're paving the way and you're here to help neurodivergent people . And so , with that , like how one , where can they get your book , and if they can work with you and , if so , how ?

Shalese 25:18

Yeah , you know what my book is live on amazon . It is live . It's available on ebook kindle version and it's available in paperback version as well . And you guys can actually work with me . You can email me . Right now I don't have a calendar set up . If you are interested in working with you , can always inbox me on any of the platforms . I'm on Neuroneverage and Millionaire on all the platforms Instagram , youtube and TikTok as well and threads , so you can reach me out . Reach out to me on inbox . You can reach out to me by email , autistictravelgoddess at gmailcom if you wish to actually work with me one-to-one .

Violeta 25:58

So that's an option as well . Awesome , and I'll make sure I put all those links so that way they can reach you and find your book so they could go and buy it . So then check it out . Yeah , but other than that , thank you for coming on here and bringing the

Promoting Inclusivity and Awareness

Violeta 26:14

awareness . That's's what is important Bringing awareness , that to this again , this need that is being overlooked , and teaching people like me because , again , it's easy , as neurotypical , to overlook these things similar to people who have some disabilities and the people that don't have disabilities . We overlook that stuff too , and it's one of the things that I'm working on too , that I follow . Oh , my God , I can't think of her name right now , but I'm learning so much through her of how I'm being ableist , I guess without knowing it , and so now , yeah , so I'm glad that you're in this space and bringing that awareness .

Shalese 26:54

Oh yes , I'm so glad for people like you who are willing to learn from us and be open-minded . I'm glad that you guys are willing to be inclusive as well , and I really appreciate you giving me this opportunity to share the word and to spread the awareness .

Violeta 27:11

Yeah , yeah , it's definitely important , but again , everything will be linked down below . But yeah , that's it for this episode . I will see everyone in the next one . Bye , bye .